The real A.I. forwarded a blog called “What About Our Daughters?”, which also has hosts a new weekly online radio program called “The Black Women’s Roundtable” .
Check them out. They are involved in some very positive community building efforts. I will also add a link to the AfroSphere.
Much love.
You need to be careful with this one. She’s a part of a circle of women who demean black men in the worst way and promote white men as saviours who will rescue black women from the evil of black men. She cites EVIA (http://bfinterracialmarriage.blogspot.com/) as her mentor. Evia is the ringleader of that group and these are some of the things she has to say about black men:
Black women who are with Black men are “Mammies” and “Breeders”.
Black men are “to stupid to think for themselves”.
“Good and wonderful Black men” are “outnumbered” by Black men who are “lazy, thriftless, intemperate, insolent, dishonest, and without the most rudimentary elements of morality”.
“bm [black men] could have become great multi-dimensional human beings if they could only think for themselves” .
White men are kind, good-hearted, hard-working, and when they try to emulate Gangsta rappers they likely do so under duress:
“Some white males who go to school with lots of black males want to ‘act thuggish’ as a way of fitting in with black males and seeming less like ‘white boys’ because that can be risky, even dangerous.”
further…
“… young, insecure, lower income white males are looking for an identity and may imitate black males but I don’t think they want to be black at all because they definitely know how black males are regarded by older whites around them.”
In fact, these women have gone as far as justifying the rape of black women in the South during slavery and thereafter as well as the miscegenation laws as “proof” for the”primordial physical and spiritual desires of many white men for black women and vice versa”.
This shit is really vile.
I just did a post on these women.
http://assaultonblacksanity.blogspot.com/2007/05/recruiting-black-women-fo-kkk.html
You’ll find the pertinent links there.
What they are doing is using what should be a deservedly positive anti-Gangsta hip hop campaign to further their truely racist and misogynist agenda.
If you link them you might as well link the KKK.
Moreover, if you do think you need to link them after examining their websites, please de-link me.
That is how strongly I feel about the people.
The meat of their racist mindset is not just in the articles, but especially in the comments.
on EVIA’s site she uses the moniker synamon
Michael, I did a little more research for myself and went back to the “What About OUR Daughters “ site and even visited EVIA’s site, which isn’t linked here. I personally found nothing offensive nor any “anti-Black male” sentiments on the “WAOD” site…. but that is my perception. It could be said that it has an overtly pro-Black woman agenda, but personally I don’t see anything wrong with that. EVIA’s site, which again isn’t linked to us, has some very strong opinions which although I may not totally agree with, does offer another point of view on certain issues. I read your post and I also observed that you were previously involved in a heated debate over at EVIA’s page, which I believe is the basis of your feelings.
In our Mission Statement we stated that we are not seeking to only engage with those who agree with our point(s) of view. If I am agreeing with everything you’re thinking, then there is really only “one” of us who is really thinking.
Your comments are duly noted and the other members of the Circle can research the “WAOD” site for themselves and if any one of us feels as strongly as you, we have the policy that any one of us can delete any link or post we find offensive and/or does not reflect what we are striving to accomplish here. However we will not make these decisions based on others “blog wars”.
I will respect your decision and de-link you.
Asa.
“I will respect your decision and de-link you.”
Thank you.
“If I am agreeing with everything you’re thinking, then there is really only “one” of us who is really thinking.”
Sure, that’s certainly agreeable, but there have to be parameters.
I am certainly not saying that synamon or evia should be banned from the internet. Noone is talking abouty censorship here, even if it were possible tio implement. However, including someone in the sphere of Afro-Spear confers a certain special status of legitimacy beyond the pure ability to present a view point.
Namely it says that the person or point of view is within the parameters of this special legitimacy.
When it comes to conferring this legitimacy some kind of parameters have to be implemented. That is, somewhere a line has to be drawn in the sand. And including sites run by people as part of the Spere of Afro-Spear (thereby assigning them a measure of legitimacy) who approve of the rape of African women during and after slavery as a sign of the ”primordial physical and spiritual desires of many white men for black women and vice versa” goes beyond any parameters that I can think of as useful.
Thus no one is talking about censorship here.
Let me give you an example.
There is a site http://www.kkk.bz/marcus_garvey.htm
which speaks in the most glowing terms of Marcus garvey as a hero. The site happens to be run by one of the various branches of the KKK.
Would you call for he site to be banned from the internet? I hope not. Otherwise a discourse ABOUT (and not necessarily with) these folks is impossible.
However, would you include this site as one worthy of being given Afro-Sphere status and conferring a legitimacy to them? I mean, look, the site IS praising one of our most popular past leaders.
So, would you? Give them Afro-Spere status?
If yes, why? If, no, why not? If no, would it be fair for someone to trivialize this decision as engaging in a “blog war”?
Having being targeted by the “Black Mafia”, I know exactly what Michael is talking about. There are some sick folks out here who will turn their disease (bitterness, legitimate hurt), not on the one that created and maintains our oppresion, but into an unholy cursade against their brother or sister who’s victimized by the SAME THING.
Discernment is necessary, but its real easy to get sidetracked into a civil war, when our energies would be better served focusing on the real enemy/struggle.
And then, that is a part of the struggle for our own and our people’s minds.
As an ally of mine used to always say: Time takes time.
“Discernment is necessary,” agreed. Cool. So how do we discern?
“but its real easy to get sidetracked into a civil war”
Ahhh, and THERE’s the rub. We already are engaged in a Civil War. It is one that has been imposed on us by those who decided to join “the real enemy/struggle.”
Your avatar is Malcom. The “real enemy” sent in his black collaborators to the Audobon to murder Bro. Malcom. Malcom had made the fateful decision that day NOT to discern, not to have folks searched. Thus anyone black could wander into his house, the Audobon, and kill him without compunction.
There is no way we can deal with “the real enemy” and conduct the “real struggle” without identifying and engaging that real enemies black minions.
Black people that clearly work on behalf of white supremacy (and this is the case here) should not be enabled by lending them credibility by inviting them into your house.
Afrospear gains its legitimacy solely from its members. Once one becomes a member one confers legitimacy to the other members. I certainly will not confer my legitimacy to those who are such clear racists against my people and our children. Thus the de-linking.
Michael, I respect your opinion and enjoy your blog.
“Michael, I respect your opinion and enjoy your blog.”
I certainly appreciate that and thank you.
However, I would hope that Asa will answer my question:
Would he give the KKK blog Afro-Sphere status?
If yes, why? If, no, why not?
Hey, Michael, just so I’m clear: you object to a blog linking here or a blog linking here that is linked to another blog (Evia)?
Thanks
———
Please post this corrected version.
Thank you.
———
My objection is the linking of a blog run by a person who explicitly approves of the views of and advocates as a “mentor” another person who spews racist KKK-type propaganda.
Such a person should not be given the special status and honor that inclusion in the Afrospear confers. It demeans Afrospear and ultimately renders this site useless as a tool for the liberation of the minds of our people.
What I am saying is that it is the idea of Afrosphere, that this idea and this project I was very enthusiastic and hopeful about. This is why I linked Afrospear on my blog in the first place. I did this without asking to be linked to this potential metasite. The honor of linking me as a member site was conferred upon me by you guys.
Now. Every blog which agrees to be linked to Afrospear or, even more explicitly, which links Afrospear on their individual site makes an implicit statement. That statment says “I agree that I am going to participate in the collective pooling of our intellectual resources on this meta site, Afrospear”. It says that “Afrospear will be the lens through which our collective intellectual resources for the progress and liberation of our people will be focused”.
That statement confers upon you, as administrators of the site a very important and special responsibility. Namely the administration of the, currently potential, but in the future possibly actual, pooling of the precious intellectual resources of an entire race and people.
Now that’s some Heavy Shit.
That would make Afrospear THE leading site for Black discourse and liberation. It would be able to forge political and economic action. It would be able to actually mobilize, influence, and determine actual social, political, and economic movements.
It could make and unmake Presidents.
It could finally give us, as a people, an incredibly powerful voice that, for once, is not chosen and appointed by the ofay media.
You think Kos, Huffington or MoveON successfully influences American politics and even the course of a war?
Hell, just imagine how much more a truly successfull black metasite could do.
Because, if you look at American history you will find that the political progression in this country has largely been driven by our people and our politics.
Without the need of the British colonists in America to maintain slavery in face of Lord Mansfield’s Somerset decision there likely would not have been an American “Revolution” in the first place.
Without our people there would not have been a Civil War.
Without our people, there would not have been a successful conclusion to the Civil War.
Without our people’s movement and struggle for civil rights there would not have been a Anti-Vietnam War movement.
Without the political and social movement of our people for civil rights Jews, gays, and women would still find themselves excluded from the centers of power.
Without our people there would not have been the abolition of apartheid in South Africa and Rhodesia.
Afrospear has the potential to gather, pool and FOCUS that power and mobilize our people.
That makes whoever administers Afrosphere potentially very powerful people. It also makes them leaders the like of which we have lacked since the murder of Malcom and Martin. Moreover it is a leadership conferred upon them by truly democratic means. That is, not just by some vote, but potentially by the conscious discourse of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of black folk.
That puts a very heavy responsibility on the administrators. And that responsibility includes the responsibility to discern.
To include and to exclude.
To focus and confer legitimacy of a kind not ever seen before.
It means the end of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. Of “black leaders” who are accountable to no one except themselves.
It means the realization of the dream of our passed Elder John Henrik Clarke.
That means y’all have to be very serious.
And set parameters.
And those parameters have to say: F**k an all-inclusive liberalism. We allow anyone in here as a member who works, thinks, fights, and struggles for and on behalf of our people. Even those who might be misguided.
But we do not confer this special legitimacy, this power given to us by our members, onto people who outright advocate and approve of the destruction of our people and the rape of our women, daughters, and mothers.
We can not go and let these people say and advocate vile things like that on the one hand by excluding them (thus you would not make the KKK website a member or link them or do link such a person who advocates the KKK website as a source of inspiration) and, then, on the other hand, when they or their surrogates decide to launch some progressive-sounding “black” project turn around to include them.
That’s bullshit and a misuse of the trust, I for one, gave you by accepting you guys as administrators of our collective intellectual discourse.
Thus I choose to retrieve my little bit of that legitimacy and power that I gave to you from you.
Because in this instance you have proven to me that you do not have the ability to handle such a potential focus of incredible political power responsibly.
And if nothing else, we as a people have to cease tolerating irresponsibility. Even from well-meaning brothers and sisters as yourselves.
That is the only way forward.
Also, please correct the following sentence: “This is why I linked my blog to Afrospear in the first place.” to “This is why I linked Afrospear on my blog in the first place”.
Thank you again,
Michael
My apologies if I provided info for a bad website that has some sort of hidden agenda…
But when I initially checked into both sites (AND listened to the entire radio program twice)…. I detected no hidden agendas from the radio host or from the WhatAboutOurDaughters Blog.
I have not been able to confirm some sort of connection between the information you provided and the women involved in the radio podcast. As Asa mentioned above, there seemed to be no indication that the sites are connected to the Ku Klux Klan….
You have made some bold statements but have not provided convincing evidence that these folks are one in the same….although the podcast host is free to admire the work of anyone she wants to. That doesn’t necessarily translate into the podcast host being part of a White Supremacist movement.
Your comments caught me by surprise….
I posted the information after one of the hosts involved with the radio program sent me a message….
I referred the link only after checking it out first…. and I detected no hidden agendas…. no references to hating Black men….. nothing about the KKK, etc.
They seemed to be (actually) admirers of Hip Hop….which I myself am not. They seem to be interested in working on improving the situation faced by young Black women….
So the KKK accusation blindsided me.
However, if I am wrong, I am apologizing now…. If this is correct information, and the Afrosphere feels that they should remove the information… then the Afrosphere has my support 110%.
I will try to make contact with the blog/podcast host myself….and see if she can respond.
This just seems like unecessary divide and conquer stuff to me… If the accusation is accurate…and true, then it’s up to the Afroshere to decide not to support the podcast… But if it can’t be proven… then folks should move on.
Let’s not get hung up on agendas, or someones personal issue with another blogger (like a blogwar)…. that will only slow things down.
O.k…
I have had a chance to take a closer look at the situation.
Basically, this poster is saying that the group should not support the efforts of the podcaster because of the personal preference of one of the women that the podcaster has linked on her blog. WOW!
That person happens to like the idea of interracial marriage. However, I listened to the podcast of Evia and found nothing that shows that she is pro-kkk. Outrageous!!!
In fact, she makes clear that while she likes the idea of interracial marriage, she is not anti-Black male…or anti-Black in general. She even says that Black men are not excluded. Sure…some of the comments/discussions get heated. But they are entitled to their opinions. And it’s far from white sheets and burning crosses…. that’s a hell of a leap.
And in fact, I would argue that the fact that black women have to form such social groups in the first place…is another reason or incentive for why we must encourage Black men (those who are involved in degrading the Black image) to get back to being men again.
One of my co-bloggers even did a quick post and link of one of the women you are referring to… It took me a while to realize it…
There is a diverse mix of African Americans in this country (and beyond) and it shouldn’t be surprising that this diversity of experience, diversity of opinion, etc is reflected in the blogosphere. Black America is not a monolith…. we do not all think alike, pray alike, love alike, dream alike, etc. AND THAT’S A GOOD THING….as long as we are all working for something positive and living positive.
The fact that this podcaster has a link to a woman who is in an interracial marriage should not kill the efforts that the podcaster is involved in regarding Rappers and how Black women are portrayed and degraded in popular culture. And btw…. the podcaster also links to sites that are very much pro-Black. And she also quotes Dr. Julia Hare at the top of her page….THAT’s pretty pro-black to me.
There is no Afrosphere requirement that I know of that says bloggers cannot work together unless all bloggers support a certain list of ALL “pro-black” issues and all the women must be involved with Black men only.
This podcaster doesn’t even mention any of that in her podcast…. she is talking about these ignorant rappers who are killing our image… and she is trying to do something (from a pro-black female perspective)….not from a perspective of hate….as insinuated by this poster.
I read your opinion on the matter….but disagree with your angle.
I will continue to post some of the podcast shows from this blogger/podcaster that have to do with misogyny in Rap music, and the degradation of the black image and of black culture.
Asa. I did not say that they are connected to the KKK, I said that they are spewing racist propaganda akin to that of the KKK.
I also made it clear that these are individuals who purport to be black women and ceratinly may be so.
I also provided the links to the verbatim quotes I gave you.
And no, it is not a personal issue.
And no, I was not ever involved in a “heated debate with Evia” even though she took one of my passing comments as an occasion to set up an entire post as if there had or would be such a “heated debate”.
Moreover, even if I had been engaged in such a debate (which I have not), that fact would be irrelevant to the issue at had, namely the racist and misogynist quotes given above.
That these statements were made under the guise of “helping black women” does not make them any less racist and destructive. It just means that they were made under the guise of “helping black women”.
To repeatedly make a suggestion that I am doing this because I may have a what you discern to be my “personal feelings” (in other words, it appears that you suggest that my feelings got hurt) trvializes the actual issue.
Lastly you made the statement that
“EVIA’s site, which again isn’t linked to us, has some very strong opinions which although I may not totally agree with, does offer another point of view on certain issues.”
Now, that I find intriguing.
While this is a separate matter from the linking issue I raised, it would be interesting to understand which of Evia’s strong opinions you may “not totally”, i.e., partially agree with and which certain issues you feel Evia offers another point of view off.
For Evia’s point of view and strong opinion can be summarized quickly and easily:
Black men, with a few exceptions of “wonderful and good” ones, in their majority are incapable to think for themselves and have failed to progress to the status of “three dimensional human beings” (less than “three dimensional human beings” meaning “sub-human” or “not quite human”).
That the black women who stay with this “sub-human”, or “not quite human” majority of black men are “mammies”. (mammie being a VERY specific term denoting a black female slave who nurtures the children of her master over her own).
That therefore the solution for black women is to escape this majority of “not quite human” black men is as follows: To seek to date and marry any other race of men than black ones, but especially white men, who in their majority clearly have achieved the status of “three dimensional human beings”, that is full human beings. A stage of development, once again, which the sub-human or not-quite human majority of black men have yet to achieve.
The imagery evia uses to bolster this argument is that of the unintelligent, unthinking, brutal, black brute and beast.
So, which part of this thesis do you “not totally” (and thus partially) agree with? And why?
Freeslave:
“Discernment is necessary, but its real easy to get sidetracked into a civil war, when our energies would be better served focusing on the real enemy/struggle.”
I agree 100% with that Freeslave….
Thanks for those words. That really sums it up.
Well summarized A.I. You (and Lubangakene) get the last word on this issue. The debate, via this forum is now closed.
[...] From The Angry Independent [...]