Posted in Activism, Africa, Blogging, Darfur, Genocide, Holocaust, Life, News, Politics, Religion, Sudan | 47 Comments

47 Responses

1. on June 10, 2007 at 11:07 pm | Reply Pianki

   I posted a couple of comments on Asabagna’s website questioning the “genocide” in the Sudan. The intense media campaign seems at odds with the lack of media interest in genocide in Iraq or Palesting, or Lebanon where Palestinian refugee camps are now undergoing heavy bombing.

   Please visit this link to read about the true intentions of the West in the Sudan. We must never allow UN or US troops in the Sudan to destabilize it the way they did to Haiti or Iraq.

   http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5714

   Believe me, the fake “Save Sudan” campaign has nothing to do with genocide and everything to do with occupying Sudan to grab it’s oil. Back in 2004, a five member UN mission went to Sudan and concluded that while there were human rights abuses, there was no genocide in the Sudan. Washington & its allies are the only ones to use this term.

   Washington’s true interest it to secure the oil from China which is setting up oil deals with various African nations through diplomacy. Washington uses the IMF, the World Bank and supports rebel movements to cripple Africa, while China gives billions in development money, building hospitals and schools.

   Again, I am begging the Afro-Spear to divest itself of everything to do with this fake “Save Darfur” campaign. Surely, one cannot believe that these countries which have oppressed us for so long, have feelings towards the people of Darfur? Are we as a people so gullible?

   The US is supplying rebel groups with arms and training them in neighbouring Chad. The rebel groups have also been a cause for much of the people fleeing their lands to become refugees. However, you will hear nothing of this in the media. How can we trust a media that won’t even show the face of the leader of Sudan, Al-Bashir?

   It is a fact that China has given far more money to African development than the US, Canada or Europe. Much of this money has gone to infrastructure development. These ‘soft’ loans have low interest rates unlike the exorbitantly high interest that the Western Nations have ever given to Africa. In fact, it has been postulated that if China can increase it’s oil business with Chad, that this could be a more effective way of ending the conflict between Chad and Sudan than any UN or African Union soldiers.

   If someone, disagrees with this comment then they are free to challenge my opinion and state their reasons for doing so. If no-one can state otherwise, can I ask the Afro-Spear to stop linking people to those disgusting imperial websites masquerading as “Help for Darfur?” We will not be helping Darfur, only ensuring its destruction. Sudan is extremely important to the development of Africa. Can we, the Afro-Spear Nation, reach an agreement regarding this please? Let us work together to keep the UN, and the US out of Sudan. Let us agree to not promote the campaign to allow US & UN intervention in Sudan. Thank you.

   http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=5714

   
   
2. on June 10, 2007 at 11:29 pm | Reply Pianki

   Will Sudan’s fate be the fate of Haiti? Here are some interesting links to articles on the oppression of the Haitian people.

   US orchestrated ‘coup’ of Aristide’s government in Haiti, with the generous support of Canada and France. http://thefilter.ca/articles/canada/a-very-canadian-coup-detat-in-haiti/

   This link covers the ‘alleged’ rape of 14 year old girl by a Brazilian soldier. Ok, I am furious at this, and you can bet it’s only the tip of the ice berg. UN soldiers have been implicated in child abuse in Africa, and other parts of the world before. I also angry, that the UN troops are foreign troops from countries like Austria, Canada and Brazil ( a country with endemic racism), policing Haiti. Apparently UN soldiers are paying girls for sex, who are as young as 11 years with candy, food and money. (I wonder if this is contributing to AIDS in Haiti?) It is my belief that those soldiers in Haiti should be primarily from the West Indies and the Caribbean.
   http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6159923.stm

   This link, from the Haitia Action group, shows photos of Haitians demonstrating to protest Aristide’s ‘coup’. Also, a Haitian man with a bullet wound in his face that he said was caused by a gunshot from a UN soldier.
   http://www.haitiaction.net/News/HIP/5_8_5/5_8_5.html

   This link talks about the history of embargoes on Haiti.
   http://www.iacenter.org/haiti/embargoes.htm

   If you read these articles you will see why the West cannot be trusted in handle the affairs of the African and the African Diaspora. We need to raise a campaign of awareness about the plight of the “poorest nation on earth”. There are Canadian and US owned sweatshops operating with impunity in Haiti, and the poverty is a consequence of US interference not any deficiencies of the Haitian people.

   Please try to raise awareness about Haiti, and to do what we can to change their standard living which is the result of foreign occupation by UN and US soldiers. We need to create our own mechanism for creating pressure (eg. letter writing campaign) to help the people of Haiti and to press for the development of this Caribbean island.

   
   
3. on June 11, 2007 at 12:48 am | Reply asabagna

   Pianki… I agree that Haiti is indeed another issue which those of us of African descent should also be mindful of.

   You are entitled to your opinion on the Darfur issue. I have a number of friends and acquaintances from Sudan and they don’t deny that there is a serious conflict in Darfur. It interesting though that the ones who are Muslim do not classify it as “genocide”, while those who are not Muslims, do. I agree the issue is not as simple and/or straightforward as the media states, but I support any intervention into Darfur to stop the conflict, which I see as “genocide”. I would prefer it be a security force from African and Muslim countries only, but that won’t happen for a number of reasons.

   Thanks for your resources. It brings a different perspective on these issues and we can all make an informed decision on where we decide to stand. However I will continue to advocate for intervention in Darfur and will encourage everyone to get involved with any (and as many) “Save Darfur” campaigns that they can.

   
   
4. on June 12, 2007 at 12:22 pm | Reply Pianki

   Asabagna, I agree with some of your statements, regarding the fact that something must be done about Darfur. Furthermore, I acknowledge that, while I’m not sure that the word “genocide”is applicable, that there is definitely a crisis that needs to be dealt with.

   You are correct that Arab news services tend to gloss over the events in Darfur, however I believe that other new sources are also exaggerating and simplifying the situation. I will also state that I do not trust the government of Sudan and I believe that pressure must be brought against them and the Chinese government.

   It is important to note that the US is also directly involved in this conflict, through their dealings with the government of Chad (also known for human rights abuses). It has also been stated that the US has also trained and provided arms for other militia groups in some of the countries that are neighbours to Sudan. It is the US after all, that is assisting Ethiopia in their armed invasion of Somalia.

   At this point I do not see China as a ‘friend’ of Africa, merely as an ally of convenience; their mandate is to acquire oil and other natural resources at all costs. If we pressure China over the Sudan, we should pressure Western nations for their policies on the African continent and in countries like Haiti.

   I am not against any movement to help the people of Darfur, I just believe that we should not support any movement that insists on UN soldiers in the Sudan. I’m in the process of moving right now. However, I will attempt to contact a few Pan-African groups regarding what can be done to raise awareness to the situation in the Sudan and Haiti, and to find out which groups (local or international) are working genuinely to help the people of Darfur.

   So I apologise for any misunderstanding my earlier comments may have caused. I’m not against helping Darfur, or being involved in movements that want to stop the near ‘genocidal’ conditions that are ocurring there. I am against UN troops occupying the region. They are doing nothing to stop the killing in Haiti. They will do nothing in the Sudan.

   The reason why I have criticized organizations like the “Save Darfur” movement is because they insist, vehemently, on the presence of UN troops. Why can’t we find a group that wants to help the people of Darfur but with an African solution? I think we should attempt to find a Sudanese group to support or a Pan-African group. Maybe we could start our own online petition, asking for international intervention but demanding that funds be given to support the African Union peacekeepers. The West has supported many murderous governments in Africa, and destabilized Africa through the IMF and the World Bank, I don’t believe they can offer a viable solution for the people of Sudan. Countries like China and India are running through Africa offering trade and development. The US is training militias, selling arms, and trying to destabilize African governments, as well as build military bases.

   If it is possible, perhaps we should find our own voice to help the people of Darfur.

   
   
5. on June 12, 2007 at 3:09 pm | Reply Bruce Dixon

   It’s also interesting that much of the money raised in the US through “Save Darfur” appeals is recycled into more publicity, not to feed starving people, or shelter them, or get them medical care. If you care about Darfur you need to start something that gets the money directly TO those that need it.

   And you need to examine who is coordinating the “Save Darfur” effort and ask yourself why. I might be old and cynical, but It does seem to me that the howling of genocide is a prelude to US or US-sponsored, as in NATO military intervention, and not to protect civilians either. To grab the oil, which right now goes to China without the US getting a cut.

   Ask yourself why no Hollywood types are hollering genocide about the Congo, where the Us arms the Rwandan and Ugandan governments and where US and European corporations are running extractive operations that keep the coltan flowing for our cell phones and computers, and where upwards of four million have died in the last five years. Four million.

   But I guess when US corporations and US allies do it, it ain’t genocide, huh. Only when there’s oil, and somebody ELSE is getting that oil is it “genocide”.

   
   
6. on June 12, 2007 at 4:39 pm | Reply Global Voices Online » Sudan: Eyes on Darfur

   [...] Eyes on Darfur via AfroSphere: “In June 2007, Amnesty International launched a human rights project and accompanying web site called Eyes On Darfur, which uses high resolution commercial satellite images of villages in the Darfur region. It features before and after satellite images of destroyed villages and villages at risk, as well as documented reports and personal accounts from the victims of the genocide and ethnic cleansing.” Share This [...]

   
   
7. on June 12, 2007 at 11:11 pm | Reply asabagna

   Pianki and Bruce… I see you points and your questioning of the whole process is needed for more enlightenment on some of the underlying issues. We see things through “western eyes” and don’t question enough. So I appreciate your perspectives. They give us cause for reflection.

   “If it is possible, perhaps we should find our own voice to help the people of Darfur”.

   I agree wholeheartedly with this statement!

   
   
8. on June 13, 2007 at 5:15 am | Reply Rombo

   There is definitely trouble in Darfur. It is possible that some may use this trouble to serve their own selfish ends, but that does not make the trouble any less real.

   I so want the African Union to develop it’s own muscle quickly so that we as Africans can be take care of our own business inhouse without having to be dragged along in others’ agendas. And not just Darfur but Zimbabwe, Somalia, DRC etc.

   
   
9. on June 14, 2007 at 4:26 am | Reply Pianki

   Asabagna, Bruce, and Rombo I thank you for your input on the topic of Darfur.

   I acknowledge that it is not enough to simply illustrate a possible problem but one must also seek a solution. I know that I’ve been harping on not supporting groups that advocate having UN troops in the Sudan. (I don’t believe that Arab troops should be there either).

   That being said, I would invite anyone to suggest an organization that is genuine about helping the Sudan and that is not a pawn of Western nations that will create their own genocide in their rush for gold, oil and probably archaeological artifacts that fetch a high price.

   During Saddam’s time, death was the preferred treatment for anyone defacing the ancient artifacts. Apparently in Iraq, the US army made it possible for many ancient artifacts to be stolen by Americans, British or Iraqis. It is incredible that this was not given much coverage in the media. This of course brings me to one of my favourite quotes: “He who controls the past, controls the present. He who controls the present, controls the future” (George Orwell’s book: “1984).

   I guess the media doesn’t want show the link between Iraq and its ancient history. To do that would make it harder to “demonize” the Iraqi people and portray them as being barbaric in comparison to people who live in the West. Iraq was known historically as Mesopotamia and was home to Sumer, “the world’s first known civilization.” This last part is a lie of course: Egypt is older than Sumer and Sudan is even older than Egypt. Of course, we’ll never know this history if the UN troops get into Sudan. Outside Arabic influences would also like destroy the ancient history of Sudan or claim it for their own. Anything to keep the black man in an state of mental slavery.

   I honestly believe that we must do all we can to influence what happens in Sudan. They took Egypt from us (kind of), but Sudan, home of the most ancient Nubians, must remain with us, as we have removed us from much of ancient history. For those interested in ancient African History but don’t know much about it, I suggest “World’s Great Men of Color, Volume 1″ by J.A. Rogers. It is informative, and is a quick read. There are plenty of Great Women of Colour in the book as well.

   But I digress. I have a suggestion that maybe someone could start a on-line petition. The petition could press for diplomatic solutions to Sudan and a mandate to give the African Union more equipment and money to pay the troops. We could petition other African countries. Perhaps we could petition the government of China to supply money to the African Union. Possibly India, who is also competing with China for trade/business in Africa could be pressed to give money to the African Union. Either way, once you’ve got a petition with a whole heap of signatures, it can possibly open doors especially if you keep making more petitions and get more people involved. I mean, why can’t we do our own petitioning? All we need is a letter with a mandate and a bunch signatures.

   I will see if I can find any organizations that are working to genuinely help the people of Darfur. Again, if anyone knows of any such organizations, I’ll be glad to hear of them. Until then, I’ll search for any groups/organizations that we can support and give our money to, that will actually ensure it gets to the people of Darfur.

   
   
10. on June 14, 2007 at 11:38 am | Reply Rombo

    “The petition could press for diplomatic solutions to Sudan and a mandate to give the African Union more equipment and money to pay the troops.”

    I’m afraid that, in my book, this is where the problem lies. If we as Africans think that it is our problem, then we’d best start putting our (precious little, I know) money where our mouth is.

    If we’re asking the west for money, we’re asking them to interfere. Herein lies the problem. If we’re determined to look inward for the solutions to our problems, then we must be willing to pay the price to solve those problems.

    And yes, I’m painfully aware that to do is not as easy as to say.

    
    
11. on June 14, 2007 at 4:14 pm | Reply Pianki

    Rombo, I like your suggestion that we, the Africans and the African Diaspora, should be the ones to pledge money. Although I have to say that I meant for the petition to target African leaders and possibly contries like Venezuela, China or India. However, I am absolutely down with your suggestion to keep it in house, and provide an African solution. We should be the ones contributing money to help make the African Union stronger and more viable so that they can help the people in Dafur. This might indirectly influence other African leaders to contribute money to the African Union as well.

    Just one note: I do not support UN, US and non-African Arabic troops being in the Sudan. I believe that Sudan’s problems should be solved by Africans.

    I don’t know much about setting up online petitions that receive donations, but that is definitely the way to go. If anyone has any knowledge about this subject of setting up petitions and donations and want to help effect change in Darfur, by all means please give us your feedback. Rombo, you made the point that we black people aren’t exactly awash in money, but if we all contribute a little, we might be surprised at how much, as a group, we can contribute financially. As Rombo phrased it: “…we must be willing to pay the price to solve those problems”

    Let us try collectively, to make some positive changes for the people of Darfur and for African people around the world.

    One Last Thing:

    We must not forget the awful situation that exists in Haiti and we must try to do something to bring the plight of the Haitians into the spotlight. Haiti, which also has a glorious history of black revolution against colonial oppression. The slaves of Haiti were victorious in battle against the Spanish, the French and the British. Toussaint L’ouverture, one of the leaders of the Haitian Revolution was so feared that the British and Americans gave him arms and goods (in trade) with the promise that he would not invade Jamaica or the American South. It seems as if Haiti has been paying for the “crime” of revolt for quite some time. We cannot forget Haiti and the oppression visited upon it by the US, Canada and France.

    
    
12. on June 14, 2007 at 5:11 pm | Reply asabagna

    Rombo,

    I want to welcome you to the discussion and our page. I have visited your blog on occasion and have enjoyed and been enlightened by your posts. I welcome your perspective on this and other topics of discourse here.

    
    
13. on June 16, 2007 at 6:57 pm | Reply Why We�re Not Winning The �War Against Terror� III

    While the western world media is focussing its attention on the battles taking place in Afghanistan and Iraq, Africa is being �eaten up� by our old enemies. Islam is forcing its way down from North East Africa towards the equator, while China is moving in from the East, South of the Equator.

    In m…

    
    
14. on June 17, 2007 at 8:38 pm | Reply Kizzie

    Pianki

    I posted many links from the Global Research website before ( I think in another Darfur post).
    I’m going to repeat this again ” There is no genocide in Darfur” I’m not in denial. There is violence/ethnic conflict and many people died but it is not a genocide.
    Calling it a genocide made it even worse!
    Save Darfur is raising alot of money but they are not going to stop this conflict. I really dont understand why the american civil society thinks they are going to stop the conflict by pressuring their governments to take action. For crying out loud, you can’t stop the conflict if you don’t know the history of Darfur or anything about Sudan and the Sudanese government.
    Only Darfurians and the rest of the Sudanese can save Darfur! They are the only ones who can make it stop.

    The whole Arabs are killing Africans is ridiculous! Last time I checked there were no Arab tribes in Darfur. There are tribes in the North and the East who are pure arabs or they have Arab heritage but Darfurians are not Arabs.
    Here is a very important question. who are the Arabs? Arabs are Middle-Easterns and North Africans. Kepp in mind that most NAfricans don’t have any Arab blood. Then why are they called Arabs?
    Just like the Darfurians. They are Arabized and they speak Arab. According to the Qu’ran, Arabs are people who speak Arabic!

    About China:

    China did more to Sudan in 1 decade than the west in 50 years! They provided business opportunies, trade and they invested in different areas. They created jobs and they flood the markets with affordable goods!
    Sudan owes so much money to the West and the IMF. They keep giving us development aid or whatever and loans with horrible interest rates.
    One of them Western institutions admitted last year that they made soo much money of Africa’s loans.

    Anyways, I’m not concerned about that but I’m starting think that the US is playing games with China through Sudan!
    By boycotting the olympics and calling it the “genocide olympics” you are NOT “saving Darfur”.

    
    
15. on June 18, 2007 at 12:44 pm | Reply markbey

    ” I posted many links from the Global Research website before ( I think in another Darfur post).
    I’m going to repeat this again ” There is no genocide in Darfur” I’m not in denial. There is violence/ethnic conflict and many people died but it is not a genocide.
    Calling it a genocide made it even worse!”

    mark bey: My question to you is this what do the people of Dafur say about this. Do they consider what’s going on genocide. I find it rather odd that the people on the thread claimnig that their is no genocide have not provided any links or colums by Darfurians tribes/ethnic groups.

    I would very much like to hear the perspective of the people actually caught in the conflict.

    
    
16. on June 18, 2007 at 4:15 pm | Reply Sylvia

    Kizzie is a Sudanese blogger, and a few of the commenters here are based on the African continent. (Not saying the latter makes those people absolute authorities on what’s going on specifically in Darfur, but I think the opinions expressed are coming from diverse perspectives.)

    However, I do think that the perspectives of people in Darfur that we receive in America are problematically filtered through human rights groups that have a lot of time and money invested in presenting the events in Darfur as a genocide. From what I’ve been reading in this discussion, people are very much trying to unravel those threads to discuss how to hit to the heart of ending the conflict.

    
    
17. on June 18, 2007 at 9:17 pm | Reply Kizzie

    Markbey,
    This is a reply I got from a fellow sudanese blogger to one of my posts regarding darfur
    “One of the stories I heard from a Darfurian man was that he went into some sort of exhibition in the states showing pictures of rape victims from Darfur, and he said one of the pictures he saw was for his aunt, so he contacted one of her sons to find out what is going on and he told him that all that was a lie and nothing of that sort has happened to the mother, and when he reported that to the museum all they did was remove her picture. Another story I heard from a guy that went to Darfur on a humanitarian mission that (he was sudanese) he decided to ask one of those rape victims what the word rape meant, and she couldn’t explain anything so when he finally told her what it was she looked ashamed, covered her face, and started saying astghfar Allah then ran out.”

    So you want to hear a real Darfurian opinion?
    Here you go…

    “EL FASHER, SUDAN — For Awatif Ahmed Isshag, covering Darfur is the story of her life.Nearly a decade ago, at 14, Isshag started publishing a handwritten community newsletter about local events, arts and religion. Once a month she’d paste decorated pages to a large piece of wood and hang it from a tree outside her family’s home for passersby to read.But after western Sudan plunged into bloodshed and suffering in 2003, Isshag’s publication took on a decidedly sharper edge, tackling issues such as the plight of refugees, water shortages, government inaction in the face of militia attacks, and sexual violence against women. Her grass-roots periodical has become the closest thing that El Fasher, capital of North Darfur state, has to a hometown newspaper. More than 100 people a day stop to check out her latest installments, some walking several miles from nearby displacement camps, she said.”I feel I have a message to deliver to the community,” said Isshag, now all of 24 years old.The petite reporter is an increasingly common sight around town, her notebook and pen in hand as she interviews local people for her articles. Last week she roamed El Fasher asking people how they felt about the International Criminal Court’s recent accusations against two war-crimes suspects in Darfur.Critics have attempted to intimidate her and force her to shut down. Instead, Isshag is expanding this month with a new printed edition, enabling her to circulate for the first time beyond the neighborhood tree. “She represents the only indigenous piece of journalism in Darfur,” said Simon Haselock, a media consultant with Africa Union in Khartoum. “She’s got energy and drive. It’s exactly what they need.” Readers say her magazine, called Al Raheel (which roughly translates as “Moving” or “Departing”), is one of the only places they can read locally produced stories about issues touching their lives.”It’s the best because this magazine shows what is really happening in Darfur,” said Mohammed Ameen Slik, 30, an airline supervisor who lives nearby.Isshag complained that despite international attention, the suffering of Darfur remained vastly underreported inside Sudan. There are no television stations in the area, and most newspapers operate under government control or are based hundreds of miles away in Khartoum.”The local media don’t cover the issue of Darfur,” she said. “We hear about it when one child dies in Iraq, but we hear nothing when 50 children die” in Darfur. Through articles, essays and poems, Isshag frequently blames the government for failing to protect the citizens of Darfur. A recent story titled “What’s Going On in El Fasher?” compared the government’s tightening security vise in the city to checkpoints in Lebanon. A thinly veiled poem told the story of a sultan who blithely tried to reassure his long-suffering subjects.Isshag said government officials had so far largely dismissed her as “just a young girl.” But during a recent trip to Khartoum, she received an anonymous phone call from someone who warned her to “stop writing” and “take care of your education” instead.She shrugged off the threat. “I’m not afraid,” she said. “Journalism is a profession of risk. I’m not doing something wrong. I’m doing something right.” Her passion for giving voice to the region’s victims stems in part from her own family’s losses. A cousin walked for three days to escape attacks by Arab militias, known as janjaweed, after her village was burned down. Her grandfather died in a displacement camp near Nyala, the capital of South Darfur state. About a dozen other relatives still live in the camp, unable for security reasons to return home.Darfur’s crisis began in 2003 after rebels attacked government forces. Government officials are accused of responding by hiring the janjaweed to attack Darfur villages and terrorize civilians. The government denies supporting the militias. More than 200,000 have died in the conflict, and 2 million more have been displaced.An advocate for women’s education, Isshag credits her parents for allowing her to avoid being tied down by housework and pursue her interest in writing. But she occasionally uses her columns to lecture other women on pet peeves. A recent “For Women Only” article lambasted those who took off their shoes on the bus. “It’s wrong,” she said with a laugh.Isshag hopes to complete a master’s degree in economics at the University of Khartoum and one day to lead a development company, building schools and houses in her long-marginalized homeland. But for now she’s focused on improving the magazine.After a local Khartoum-based newspaper profiled her, Isshag received a new computer and printer as a gift from a well-wisher in Qatar. She’s also looking into launching a website.She said she would never charge readers for the paper or turn it into a business. “I don’t care about the money,” she said. “I would fast to get the story.”

    
    
18. on June 18, 2007 at 9:22 pm | Reply Kizzie

    Robert O.Collins (An American author n professor at UCSB, he published several books about Sudan and Africa)
    I’m reading one of his books now and trust me, he knows alot! He is not biased in anyway and he knows what he is talking about!
    I will be meeting him in santa barbara next month to discuss his book “revolutionary sudan” *grin*

    Collins provides a perfect description of Darfur here

    “In Sudan, there has certainly been horrific violence: massacres, burning of villages and fields, abduction and rape of women, removal of children from their families, looting, pillaging and terrorizing. Yet there is insufficient planning and bureaucratic control for all this to rise to the level of genocide, as defined in the UN Convention. It is true that the NIF government has armed the Begarra tribes to perform as proxy militias, but these are not well-trained, centrally-organized troops; they are essentially bandits and thugs. They receive little training—certainly no training in the laws of war. Many of the soldiers are in fact teenagers and boys who have been recruited under pressure, or even abducted. They are fighting without an overarching long-term goal; they want their spoils (a cow, a woman, whatever they can loot) and they want them now. The corruption of children taken for soldiers is yet another tragic aspect of this war.”

    the article
    http://www.crimesofwar.org/sudan-mag/sudan-collins.html

    
    
19. on June 19, 2007 at 12:51 pm | Reply byrdparker

    I happened to be traveling to haiti during the coup’s… There were two , a small “test run coup ” i guess u could call it first. The coups were planned , i was staying at the hotel montana , the night of the first coup when i returned to the hotel , the security , went to my room , and checked all over in the closets , all the windows the bathroom … I thought this was strange … That night as i lay sleeping , i awoke to sounds of dogs barking , chickens clucking , and a steady but indecipherable sound of constant human shall i say moaning noise… I was supposedto fly out the next day , needless to say I did not … Was I frightened ?, not really what would fear have done for me in that instance. Ayiti , oh Ayiti , I love it there … I loved working with the artisans from carfou , enlightening to see the colonial termite ridden structures still standing , with some whites still clinging tothe old way . The voodoo ceremonies truly awe inspiring raw power….. Let me make mention that I did not like haiti , b/4 i visited, most of my ideas of haiti were based upon what i learned from the western corporate media…

    In regards to china , i travel there for business … The chinese want the gas and are supporting the muslims , the chinese operate different than the west . Don’t be fooled !!! While i love china , i will say do not be underestimated.. Its a totally different culture , where actions do not necessarily mean what you think they mean . It’s interesting because i know the west clearly understands china is not there friend , but they cannot survive without them . Most people in china are very national , and believe within 50 years china will be the next super power, and then I say to you remember the cultural revolution !

    Now I say to you people if you really want to know what is going on in dafur , you must go there , you must live with the people , experience what they experience.. You must go with humility only then u will experience.

    
    
20. on June 19, 2007 at 3:04 pm | Reply Kizzie

    “Most people in china are very national , and believe within 50 years china will be the next super power, and then I say to you remember the cultural revolution !”
    I believe so too! Don’t you think China is economically/politically/socio-culturally/military capable of becoming the next superpower?

    
    
21. on June 19, 2007 at 3:06 pm | Reply Kizzie

    Pianki,
    r u nubian?

    
    
22. on June 21, 2007 at 5:15 pm | Reply byrdparker

    I believe so too! Don’t you think China is economically/politically/socio-culturally/military capable of becoming the next superpower?

    Yes , I do but thier military needs work , discipline . But you know if they do acheive this goal , it is not good for us .

    I would like to know more about china in africa, a business contact told me that china is investing in africa , basically to use africa , for embargo restrictions ,cheap labor, and oil ( in regards to the oil the chinese stand with the arabs right ?) .. So if the chinese are involved with Dafur , this cannot be good for the people suffering.

    I don’t know if you follow this sort of news , but Bush was pushing to raise the rmb in attempts to level out the import/export playing fields, but the rmb ( not free trading currency) is now worth more than the hkd ( free trading currency ) . This raises the labor cost in china ,which :
    a) will cut out the small entreprenuerial businesses, that flourished after the elimination of quota
    b) hurting the small business in the us who have begun to import after the quota restrictions were lifted.
    c) Only corporations with large order quantities will be the only ones working in china, so they can flood the market and make all the profit , monopolize.
    d) workers , due to rmb hike , will now need to be paid more as the living cost will rise , a lot will lose thier jobs and china will source outside, while the young will be educated , and slowly china will workforce will become all white collar workers.

    **** at the rate it’s going the us/ eruope / africa will all be making product for china . Currently the wealthy chinese only want to buy from europe and the usa .

    
    
23. on June 21, 2007 at 6:44 pm | Reply Kizzie

    Parker,

    “So if the chinese are involved with Dafur , this cannot be good for the people suffering”

    China, the United States, Chad, Libya are all involved in Darfur ! China is not involved in Darfur directly. In fact, they are only doing business with Khartoum and they are working in the sudanese oil industry. It’s the sudanese government decision to spend the oil money on guns and funding the militia! China is not forcing Bashir to kill Darfurians..right?
    Business is Business. China is offering excellent investment and business opportunities to Sudan but because of the whole racist system in Sudan, the money generated from this is controlled by a small percentage of the population. One of the reasons (infact the main reason!) why the Darfurians started their rebellion is because they are are not seeing any oil money or any money at all!
    There are many contradictions in Sudan. You can go to some places..sip irish flavoured latte, go watch a live jazz band and then have dinner at a fancy Indian restaurant or you can go to places where people live in huts with no electricity or anything.
    Development in sudan is restricted to a few places (few ethnicities and tribes benefit from it).

    “at the rate it’s going the us/ eruope / africa will all be making product for china . Currently the wealthy chinese only want to buy from europe and the usa .”
    you think so?
    Chinese goods are available and affordable! China used their greatest natural resource (people!) to create an amazing workforce. I don’t think Africans or Europeans can compete with that.

    ” would like to know more about china in africa”
    here you go

    http://jenbrea.typepad.com/africabeat/china_in_the_developing_world/index.html

    http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/needtoknow/2006/12/china_colonizing_africa.html

    excellent article wriiten by an african intellectual
    http://www.africasia.com/services/opinions/opinions.php?ID=1193&title=versi

    
    
24. on June 22, 2007 at 4:15 am | Reply Pianki

    Kizzie, the articles on China’s involvement in Africa were very informative. China’s trade with Africa is a mixed bag, but it does present more options to African leaders.

    I believe that if they present a united front to China and are serious about true development that they can benefit from this new trading partner. I honestly believe that Pan-Africanism is the way to go for Africa, and hopefully the African Union will get stronger in the coming years.

    In answer to your question kizzie, no I am not Nubian by lineage. In my readings of African history, I came across the story of the Nubian king, Pianki, who invaded Egypt (liberating it from foreign rule) and sat on the throne. There were many kings of Nubian (Ethiopian – Sudan) heritage who sat on the throne, but I was impressed by his outcry against the cruel state of the horses in the royal stables of Egypt as he triumphantly entered the city after his victory. It seemed the true mark of a hero.

    At any rate, is there anything we can do in terms of creating a voice for the Afro-Sphere to help the people in Haiti and Darfur, either in terms of getting signatures for a petition and/or donations?

    
    
25. on June 22, 2007 at 9:06 am | Reply Kizzie

    “China’s trade with Africa is a mixed bag, but it does present more options to African leaders. ”

    True
    “I believe that if they present a united front to China and are serious about true development that they can benefit from this new trading partner. I honestly believe that Pan-Africanism is the way to go for Africa, and hopefully the African Union will get stronger in the coming years.”

    Yes, I agree with you. The AU intervention in Darfur was a bit dissapointing. We all realized after they took over that they are actually underfunded. African countries need to give away more money to the AU because it could help in solving many african problems. They need to take it more seriously.
    Chian helped 400,000 of its citizens from poverty in just 3 decades…we are talking about half of Africa’s population here….If china can export their poverty-reduction methods to African…they might actually help! Moreover, the economic reform program implemented in 1979 by the chinese president (4got his name) rescued china’s struggling economy. We need Africa’s economy to grow every year in order to create job opportunities.
    you can’t eradicate poverty by giving people aid or food. This will last for a while but if you provide jobs, africans can finally be independant.

    “In answer to your question kizzie, no I am not Nubian by lineage. In my readings of African history,”
    my dad is nubian. I visited the nubian musuem in sudan and I want to go to the one in boston. sadly, i only visted sites in aswan, south egypt but i’ve never been to north sudan. I really want to learn the language though! I think that if our generation didnt learn it, its gonna dissapear.

    “At any rate, is there anything we can do in terms of creating a voice for the Afro-Sphere to help the people in Haiti and Darfur, either in terms of getting signatures for a petition and/or donations?”
    well what you are doing is perfect. You are raising awareness about darfur and you are trying to come up with ideas to help end the conflict. I’m hoping the AU/UN troops now secure the place . however, our government should meet with the rebels again and sign a proper peace agreement and stick to it!
    For now things are improving ..violence is not as bad as before..people will want to move back to their villages soon. The government should start a funding project for darfur to rebuild the burned villages.

    
    
26. on June 22, 2007 at 7:18 pm | Reply byrdparker

    hi pianki ,and kizzie

    I have to say i love both of your names…Pianki , i read your other article in May and wanted to comment but for some reason , (which i forget why) i was not able too and gave up …

    thanks for the articles pianki ! Are you living in africa, now ?

    Any Country involved in big business is not good for poor people or any people which suffer , this is a fact . China loves money , if they are in africa , there is a financial reason and not just to help the poor.. It is usually the poor that need to be used as the labor force , and to have a good labor force they need to work hard crazy hours , and have limited education is a must .

    I hardly feel china is fighting for poor africans.. If china is working with africa they are working with the opressors , otherwise how could they get in to do business with africa .

    Africa’s way of dealing with government conflict is simmilar to china’s way of dealing with conflict , squash it by any means necessary .

    pianki quote
    “Chinese goods are available and affordable! China used their greatest natural resource (people!) to create an amazing workforce. I don’t think Africans or Europeans can compete with that.”

    Its not about competing it’s about what will and can be afordable . China is not the cheap place it used to be , it is very costly to set up operations in china with the ever changing provincial regulations. My business is directly connected with china , and i have a design center located in the guandong province . I am simply telling you what i know and see , so many people are misinformed , since they depend on the media which always is one sided.

    Yes it is nice when someone lends a helping hand , but at what cost … that is all i am saying . Understand the culture of your New Friend . Whats in the face might not be in the heart…. No one or country gives anything for free. And I am sympathetic to what you are saying , and perhaps you think i am full of crap ,and that is your choice.

    Also there are a lot of poor people in China. From what I know ( read about africa ) which might be wrong and if i am please correct me , different tribes are always fighting amongst each other > In china there are over 115 dialects , a lot of the people are provincial and might not like other provinces , but they will fight together to defeat the oppressor alongside thier neighbor they do not like , they will not turn spy. They are very national people .

    If china is such a friend why didn’t they vote for africa to have a seat in the un security council?

    I am with Kizzie

    Pan africanism all the way …. I think one problem is how to limit the elitist power and set up govenrment that does not always think about “My Turnism ” taught by the colonizers. One has to wonder since africa has got her freedom, what is really holding her back from becoming a world super power ???

    I do believe people are being murdered and killed in dafur , I do believe , it is genocide . We also have genocide in the states as well , crack cocaine, prison , elimination of the move people and the lists go on . Systematically killing by any means necessary a certain group of people whether they be related by living area , color or religion etc, is considered genocide.

    How much is one barrell of oil in dafur, how can i find out this info .?

    how easy is it for an african to get a passport ?Can african citizens get visas to go to china ?

    how many chinese people are living in dafur ? What is roles are they playing in african society ? .

    
    
27. on June 22, 2007 at 7:25 pm | Reply byrdparker

    ^^^^^
    oh and the chinese make fake food , Becareful of the food really . If food is imported from china into africa and it is not living and walking , moving or squawking do not buy or eat it . That goes for cigarettes and liquor……

    after reading those articles , now i feel really worried. Pianki I would like to know more from afrospear about south africa , and it’s relationship with the rest of africa .

    
    
28. on June 23, 2007 at 4:31 am | Reply Pianki

    Kizzie and Byrdparker, you both raise some interesting points.

    “African countries need to give away more money to the AU because it could help in solving many african problems. They need to take it more seriously.”

    Kizzie this is an excellent point. Africa needs to build these institutions like the AU so that it can establish true independence. It will also prevent foreign countries from building military bases on their soil and interfering directly in their affairs. The AU also help to fight ‘rebel groups’ created and funded by Western nations to destabilize African governments.

    “Understand the culture of your New Friend . Whats in the face might not be in the heart…. No one or country gives anything for free.”

    I agree with this statement Byrdparker, I think Africa needs to be wary of its relationship with China, but it really is incumbent upon the African nations to pick up the ball and use the money to foster true development. They also need to come together as an economic bloc and exact better terms for future trade deals. The Chinese government will also colonize Africa if they present themselves as being weak, divided and unable/unwilling to invest in themselves.

    In my opinion, Africans have to connect with their history, which is in keeping with any peoples hoping to establish themselves as a super power, as the Chinese have done. This one issue, in my opinion is a huge stumbling block for the development of Africans on the whole all over the world. It’s a question of defining yourself as opposed to having yourself defined by others. Often, religions given to us by our colonial masters, have clouded us from looking into our history and seeing the achievements of our ancient ancestors. I believe history is extremely to a people who have aspirations, as a people, towards greater things, like building an empire.

    African people in general, need to know of the culture of Mapungubwe of South Africa that traded with other African cities, China and India, or the North African of Carthage that defeated Rome in several military encounters including naval battles before falling victim to treachery by fellow Africans, the Numidians who aided Rome in bringing down Carthage down. Egypt is another North country whose ancient history is denied to Africans, yet the ancient Egyptians were an African (black) people.

    We need to be made aware of the Nok culture of Nigeria that goes back to back to 500 BC or possibly older, or of the history of ancient cities like Timbuktu and Djenne of West Africa, or of General Ganges of ancient Ethiopia (present day Sudan) who conquered his way to India, and for whom reportedly the River Ganges is named after. We should all know of the Tunisian African queen who fought valiantly on the battlefield with her troops against the Arab armies, as other African queens would later also lead their people against the French and the British.

    The Chinese people are quite aware of their ancient culture. Despite various ethnic/provincial differences, knowledge of this history helps to instill a sense of ethic/cultural pride that translates very easily into nationalism. I know to many people, it seems like an abstract thing, but it helps to shape the imagery that we have of ourselves.

    If you look at all the leading countries (Japan, England, India, the US, China, Iran etc) in the world, it is the one thing they have in common: a sense of their history and historical heritage. It’s one of the building blocks of any empire. A common African language is another vital need for the continent. Arabic is an Indo-European language, French, English etc are European. Africa needs to adopt a current African language or an ancient one like Nubian, Egyptian, Oromo or Luo as its universal language.

    “One has to wonder since africa has got her freedom, what is really holding her back from becoming a world super power ???”

    A question for future discussion no doubt.

    “I visited the nubian musuem in sudan……I really want to learn the language though! I think that if our generation didnt learn it, its gonna dissapear.”

    Kizzie, I think that’s amazing that you’re nubian. Hopefully, one day, I will get a chance to visit the nubian museum of Sudan. If you can, you should learn the language, and keep this historically-rich language alive.

    
    
29. on June 23, 2007 at 3:21 pm | Reply Kizzie

    byrdparker,

    “Any Country involved in big business is not good for poor people or any people which suffer”
    Hasty generalization. It doesn’t happen all the time.
    “If they are in Africa , there is a financial reason and not just to help the poor.”
    Who said China is dedicated to help the poor and eradicate poverty in Africa. They are engaging in a mutually-beneficial trade and business relations with African countries. They are giving Africans good investment and trade opportunities. African leaders should use the profits generated to help their own people.
    “It is usually the poor that need to be used as the labor force , and to have a good labor force they need to work hard crazy hours , and have limited education is a must .”
    The poor needs be used as the labor force. The need jobs to support themselves and families and become independent. If a Chinese company decided to use their own workers then how is this going to benefit the poor people?
    “No one or country gives anything for free”
    Yes I know what you mean. I agree with you. I’m just saying that the chances China is giving Africa are great. It is up to African leaders to benefit from them and use their relations with China to benefit from China’s experience with development. E.g:- economic reform program and poverty-reduction methods.
    “Also there are a lot of poor people in China”
    I know but we have to acknowledge their effective poverty-reduction methods. They lifted 400,000 people from poverty(above the poverty line) in just 3 decades.
    “Pan africanism all the way …. I think one problem is how to limit the elitist power and set up govenrment that does not always think about “My Turnism ” taught by the colonizers. One has to wonder since africa has got her freedom, what is really holding her back from becoming a world super power ???
    Many things are holding her back. Tribalism, dependency, harmful colonial legacy, corrupt governments etc…
    I love the diverity of Africa but it created alot of problems. We have to respect our different heritage and our languages but we should think of ourselves as (e.g:- sudanese not Nubian). In other words, nationality comes before tribe. Tribalism created many problems.
    “I do believe people are being murdered and killed in dafur , I do believe , it is genocide .”
    I don’t believe it is genocide. The fact that I don’t believe darfur is genocide doesn’t mean that I can’t understand the enormity of the situation there or even recognize the suffering of darfurians.
    “How much is one barrell of oil in dafur, how can i find out this info .?”
    I don’t know I will try to find out for you.
    “how easy is it for an african to get a passport ?”
    Depends on the country they come from.
    “Can african citizens get visas to go to china ?”
    Yes, it is not hard at all to get a visa to China.
    “how many chinese people are living in dafur ?”
    Most Chinese are located in Central Sudan. They are not in Darfur because there is no investment there or anything.

    
    
30. on June 24, 2007 at 2:57 pm | Reply byrdparker

    Kizzie / pianki

    1) Any Country involved in big business is not good for poor people or any people which suffer”
    Hasty generalization. It doesn’t happen all the time.

    Please give me an example ? Here’s an example from the states , Walmart, is never welcome in any middle / or poor community because it does not payscales , and also unfair hirirng practices . take a look at this article. http://www.colorlines.com/article.php?ID=41&limit=3000&limit2=4000&page=4

    2) “It is usually the poor that need to be used as the labor force , and to have a good labor force they need to work hard crazy hours , and have limited education is a must .”
    The poor needs be used as the labor force. The need jobs to support themselves and families and become independent. If a Chinese company decided to use their own workers then how is this going to benefit the poor people?”
    The poor really have no voice or no power , so the powerful control them , it’s the poor thinking , they need the jobs being provided by the wealthy or they can’t live . It’s not if we don’t work for you , you can’t get wealthy … The poor are afraid of the reprecussions , as am I . Because when the poor stand up usually they get beat down …. Otherwise how can we in the states , justify the usa prison system filled with black people . example mumia , move , drug dealers dealing drugs supplied by the rich .
    4) “Also there are a lot of poor people in China”
    I know but we have to acknowledge their effective poverty-reduction methods. They lifted 400,000 people from poverty(above the poverty line) in just 3 decades.

    I think it is just the culture the essence of who the country is , the timing . China for most of thier history , really had no outside colonizing force ( not as most countries starting from 1600′s to present). For a short time in modern history as the world was changing they had few minor agent provacatuers , but went it alone for a while closed off thier country by refusing to do business or adhere to subjugated policies offered by agent provacatuers. They went it alone and in thier solace found strength. Now the world is coming to depend upon them , they have the strength , it is a whole new playing field , and other countries are finding out …

    here is a great article
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15895266/site/newsweek/page/3/

    To sum up my position ,

    I think china working with africa is great ! But africa should be thinking strategically . Africa never healed after the colonizers , they rode her back into a freedom that was always theirs, and even though there have been many good phillosphies and systems implemented by African leaders since that painful period. I still do not think Africa has healed from the shock of the last couple of centuries, what is considered important now , was not always important to the african nation , somehow we need to be in the world but not of it .

    thanks for answering my questions kizzie./pianki, !

    
    
31. on June 24, 2007 at 5:01 pm | Reply Kizzie

    “Please give me an example ?”
    In the oil industry of sudan, I’ve heard that Chinese experts train unskilled sudanese workers for a period of time then when they are skilled enough to do the work, they are hired.
    This is a great opportunity for unskilled poor workers who don’t have many job opportunities.

    “The poor really have no voice or no power , so the powerful control them , it’s the poor thinking , they need the jobs being provided by the wealthy or they can’t live . It’s not if we don’t work for you , you can’t get wealthy ”

    Yeah. It’s not socialism anymore really. I know what you mean. I really hate the gaps between the rich and poor. We have a huge gap btw the rich and the poor in my country!
    I see it everyday here in Cairo too.

    “think it is just the culture the essence of who the country is , the timing . China for most of thier history , really had no outside colonizing force ( not as most countries starting from 1600’s to present). ”
    This could be a reason but I really think that the population size and their economic reform program really helped.

    ” think china working with africa is great ! But africa should be thinking strategically . Africa never healed after the colonizers , they rode her back into a freedom that was always theirs, and even though there have been many good phillosphies and systems implemented by African leaders since that painful period. I still do not think Africa has healed from the shock of the last couple of centuries, what is considered important now , was not always important to the african nation , somehow we need to be in the world but not of it . ”
    Many people believe that africa is switching a master for a new master. I hope not!
    Here is an article I wrote about China and Africa a while ago…
    http://wholeheartedly-sudaniya.blogspot.com/2007/04/arrival-of-asian-dragon-is-china.html

    
    
32. on June 25, 2007 at 3:29 am | Reply Pianki

    This articles sums up a lot of the points that have been brought up in this discussion. There are many bonuses, but there are also many pitfalls that could result as a result of intensifying trade with China.

    http://mondediplo.com/2005/05/11chinafrica

    In addition to huge amounts of trade and developmental aid, China has helped Nigeria launch its very first space satellite, opened its universities to African students, and have pledged to train 10, 000 Africans in China in various disciplines over the next couple of years.

    They are also, however, flooding local markets with cheap goods, extracting minerals and lumber out of Africa and reselling them to the Africans as manufactured goods, and creating much subcontractor work for Chinese companies and workers for work done in Africa, cutting out local companies and workers.

    If the African leaders manage their respective opportunities and foster development, it could really help pull millions of Africans out of poverty. Presenting themselves as a united trade bloc or association of nations will give them more clout and the ability to negotiate better terms. Despite some negative aspects, this could be a positive chance for Africa to find true development, but I believe that a Pan-African path is the one that will bear the most fruit in terms of trade with China and the West.

    
    
33. on June 27, 2007 at 1:48 pm | Reply markbey

    Here is a videocast about the dafur tragedy featuring Don Cheadle and John Pendergast. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4015895540758123309&hl=en

    
    
34. on June 29, 2007 at 3:27 am | Reply Pianki

    No offence intended, but I do have serious doubts about the integrity of this campaign……

    Perhaps it might have been better if Cheadle had teamed up with some noteworthy person from Sudan and launched his campaign with financial aid and organization from the black and international community. Maybe he should have spent some time campaigning against the destruction of the black community in New Orleans in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

    Personally, I would like to see a campaign organized and financed by African people from around the world. I believe, in my humble opinion, that that’s the only way that we, the African people, are ever going to get our problems solved. Everything else is a media circus where individuals and corporations rake in the profits and African people get nothing of value in return.

    
    
35. on July 15, 2007 at 8:38 am | Reply IKnowWhoIam

    See “Darfur, The Nation of Islam & the Silence of the African-American Community” here: http://deeceevoice.shoutpost.com/archives/2007/June

    We should not let our suspicion of U.S. foreign policy objectives and of the zionist lobby decide for us who our friends are.

    I just attended a meeting here in D.C. sponsored by the UNIA where Hodari Ali spoke. He contends that there’s a plot to keep Sudan from becoming the breadbasket of Africa, and that is behind the Darfur “hype.” While he acknowledged that the people of the South have “legitimate complaints” with the Sudanese government — an understatement if ever I heard one — he argued for the unity of Sudan.

    The literature he provided to try to bolster his argument was a collection of propaganda put together to accompany a satellite feed of an address by Bashir on June 30, which was piped into various locations across the U.S. — sponsored by by an outfit calling itself the African Middle East Literacy Foundation — what appears to be merely a front for a pro-Bashir lobbying effort/campaign headed by the Nation of Islam’s Akbar Muhammad. Among the disinformation distributed was speech by the Sudanese ambassador to the U.S. and some absolute garbage provided IMO, someone needs to investigate this outfit and the Nation of Islam and find out how much of its financial support can be traced to GoS sources, and if Muhammad (and possibly Farrakhan) is officially registered as an agent of a foreign government (Sudan) in the U.S.

    The literature contained such unmitigated garbage as “Sudan has proven to be honest in actions and deeds in pursuit of peace — Note the CPA’s current effects.” Anyone with half a brain knows that the Government of Sudan has reneged time and time again on promises with regard to efforts to bring peace and stability to Darfur, and that it has utterly failed to live up to the provisions of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement with the South.

    Never once did Ali mention the GoS’s appalling human rights record vis-a-vis the marginalized peoples of Sudan — meaning those Sudanese who do not self-identify as “Arab.”

    Ali’s presentation was utter bull. More than a dozen expatriate Nubian, Sudanese and Oromo attended the meeting, and they promptly began to debunk this silly, flimsy argument. But I believe Ali hasn’t changed his position. He’s seemingly deeply entrenched in a perspective that is dictated not by the reality of the situation and of world opinion (not just U.S. or “Zionist” “propaganda”), but by a perverse, hidebound pan-Africanist ideological perspective that seemingly demands he argue for the unity of the Sudanese nation at all costs.

    I am a pan-Africanist anti-zionist as well. But as I pointed out in the meeting, those of us who demonstrate in the streets on this or that issue, chanting “No justice, no peace,” cannot expect, in this instance, peace in Sudan, or Sudanese unity, without justice and equanimity. If Ali wants Sudanese unity, then he should be demonstrating with the rest of us in front of the Sudanese embassy, demanding that Bashir respect the civil and human rights of the marginalized peoples of his own nation, rather than continuing a brutal and immoral campaign to Arabize, dislocate, disenfranchise and exterminate them — instead of making excuses for or ignoring altogether the brutality and depravity of the Bashir regime.

    As the Sudanese/Nubian brothers at the meeting articulated, Bashir must go.

    THAT is the price for Sudanese unity. That is the price of peace in Sudan.

    
    
36. on July 16, 2007 at 5:59 pm | Reply markbey

    Thank you for your honest words IknowwhoIam I have noticed that amongst lots of black folks their is a need to have a conversation about how terrible the white man/system is before we can even begin to address some dysfunticions killing black people.

    This behavior even extends to excusing clown/bafoonish and murderous behavior on the parts of black folks towards other black folks and I too have noticed the nation of islams bullshit and hypocrisy on this issue.

    When I originally read this article and all of the excusing going towards the Sudaneese goverment I was so freaking mad, I couldnt believe some of the utter BS and non sense.

    I understand if folks dont like white people, or the goverment or the system or what the system is doing to black people but for god sake we need to stop enabling and excusing clown behavior on the part of black people in america but also clowns like Mugabe and Brashir.

    In my oppinion it is way past time for black folks to start loving themselves more than they hate the system or white people. The time for excuses by black people for retarted behavior needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.

    
    
37. on July 18, 2007 at 12:39 am | Reply markbey

    Sorry for the curse word in my last comment.

    
    
38. on July 18, 2007 at 12:43 am | Reply asabagna

    Yo Mark! I agree with your sentiments and passion on this subject.

    Oh Yeah… I appreciate your apology! [;o)

    
    
39. on July 21, 2007 at 2:03 pm | Reply IKnowWhoIam

    Oh, yeah. If any of you are interested in actually DOING something about Darfur, get back at me: BlkVoices4Darfur@aol.com. I’m in the process of standing up an organization called Black Voices for Darfur, and a website. Peace.

    
    
40. on July 24, 2007 at 4:40 am | Reply IKnowWhoIam

    I’d like to invite contributor Pianki to read the link to my comments on Darfur (posted above) and get back to us on his take on the subject.

    On the subject of the African Union, it is unrealistic to think AU troops can handle the situation. Bashir tolerates them in Darfur because all they can do is observe and report, and they are underpaid (subject to bribes), undermanned and ill-equipped.

    I support a hybrid UN-AU force. Why? Because it’s the only way to get the necessary personnel and materiel where they are needed. The fact is, owing to any number of factors, an “African solution” isn’t entirely viable. There’s a limit to the number of troops some African nations are willing to train and send to Darfur. Africa, unfortunately, is a mess, rife with long-standing inter-ethnic tensions and outright hostilities. Governments don’t want to send companies of men to Darfur and then have to worry about what the hell to do with them when they return. The task of assimilating large numbers of returning, well-trained warriors back into societies with limited employment/economic opportunity and ethnic/tribal tensions is one many African heads of state would rather not face down the road. Spectres of the Rwanda genocide and the kind of organized and deadly gang/criminal violence and political corruption besetting Nigeria are situations no one wants.

    Furthermore, let’s face it. The kind of $, training, weapons and command-and-control technology that would make a force on the ground (and air) in Darfur truly effective are not the kinds of things the imperialist West wants to just give up outright to an exclusively African force. It ain’t gonna happen. And with so many governments on the continent in a precarious condition politically, economically and/or socially, I hate to say it, but perhaps that’s a good thing! After all, machetes were the weapon of choice in Rwanda. Like other Africans, I’m not certain I want to see another ethnic conflict supercharged with more efficiently trained killers and state-of-the-art weaponry, likely siphoned from a Darfur police action and sold on the black market.

    The UN needs to enforce the provisions of Resolution 1706, and we need a no-fly zone to stop the GoS from bombing Darfuri villages. We need a hybrid force UN-AU force on the ground with the authority to engage the enemy and helicopter gunships in the air.

    We need these things now.

    
    
41. on July 30, 2007 at 3:58 am | Reply pianki

    I thank you for your comments, ‘IKnowWhoIam’, on the Darfur situation. I believe that there is some truth to what you say with regards to the Nation of Islam’s (NOI) position on the situation in Sudan.

    I’ve seen video clips of Akbar Muhammad speaking on the situation on Darfur, and as much as I wanted to believe him, but much of what he said rang hollow. Louis Farrakhan also sounded deliberately vague when he spoke of the armed conflict between the Government of Sudan and the people of Darfur.

    When I first joined this discussion, I supported the NOI’s position on Darfur, but I’ve since changed my position. And yes, I still believe that Louis Farrakhan and the NOI present a strong voice for Black America as they advocate for black self-empowerment and black unity.

    I also heard Hodari Ali’s speech on a college radio station as he expounded on Sudan being the ‘breadbasket’ of Africa and the plots of the West against the government of Sudan. While we can doubt what he says concerning the role of the Sudan government in Darfur, he did make a valid point concerning the efforts on the part of the West to destabilize the Sudan government. Some of the major rebel groups are receiving aid from, and answer directly to, the United States and they have contributed to the blood of innocents. However, al-Bashir’s government is also guilty of the killing of innocents as well.

    As for the UN, I have to ask myself the question: Why couldn’t they supply money and logistics to the African Union? Why they kept insisting that relatively large contingent of UN troops be placed in Sudan? And why has the media constantly characterized this as genocide when the situation in Sudan pales in comparison to the situation in the Congo where 4-5 million have died in the scramble for its resources? Where was the help for Congo? I think in Sudan 200,000 have died by comparison, and over 650,000 in Iraq. When one places the reality of these statistics beside the hysteria of the ‘Save Darfur’ movement it becomes that this all part of the new scramble for Africa on the part of the west. At least, China is offering development in as it goes on a scramble for its share of Africa’s resources.

    Frankly, I would welcome the removal of al-Bashir’s government, but I’m of the opinion that the UN has no place in Africa, and that it cannot solve Africa’s problems without a strong AU presence or perhaps the presence of another geo-political player like China.

    As far as I can tell, the UN’s presence in Haiti is not a liberating one. Why should Sudan be any different? This is in addition to accusations that the US and Canada are running sweat shops in Haiti, that Haitian gangs do as they please with impunity, and that there have been rapes of girls as young as 14 by UN soldiers (although, it seems they usually they just pay the girls with small amounts of money, food or clothing for sexual favours).

    Have a look at this disturbing article about the how the UN troopes acted against innocent Haitians after the ouster of Aristide (which was engineered by the US, Canada and France):

    http://www.haitiaction.net/News/HIP/2_15_7/2_15_7.html

    I just believe that Pan-African groups should have pressed the UN to give money & logistical support to the AU instead of having a weak, underpaid AU contingent and a strong, well-equipped UN force. These are the same people who stood aside and watched while countless people died in Rwanda. The African Diaspora can, through Pan-African groups and like-minded organizations, lobby in unison to affect changes in Darfur. And furthermore, the Diaspora needs an independent voice with regards to Africa affairs. Let’s no longer look to the West to solve our problems. Africa will do well without more of their….. ‘solutions’.

    
    
42. on July 30, 2007 at 10:00 am | Reply IKnowWhoIam

    I have no argument with you on the problems of a UN-only force, and I’m fully aware of the potential problems they pose.

    I think I addressed the problem of an all-AU protection force. The reality is it’s simply not tenable. Given my druthers, I’d prefer an all-AU force, but the West is simply NOT going to write a blank check to an indigenous African force and leave it to take care of the situation — and that’s not an altogether unreasonable stance. As I said, there are pros and cons to either situation. We must deal in realities, and that’s just fact.

    Given a choice of an impotent, understaffed and ineffectual AU force and properly equipped and well trained hybrid UN-AU force, I’ll take the latter — because it offers the better chance of protecting and preserving innocent human life. I’m far more comfortable with the notion of maintaining vigilance over an armed, hybrid peacekeeping force than waiting and watching impotently over some remote village in Darfur via satellite for the Janjaweed and Sudanese government forces to kill.

    So we can do what? Blog about it?

    And, yes. I am also involved in the Congo issue, and I’m aware of the terrible situation there as well. Those who point out the contradictions in U.S. policy and public awareness/sentiment are dead on point — but that should not keep those of us who are cognizant of both situations from doing whatever we can to end the killing in Darfur and the Congo. It’s not an either/or proposition. And people like Hodari Ali and Akbar Muhammad seemingly would have us sit on our hands in BOTH situations.

    After all, what have they offered by way of solutions? Not a damned thing, just finger pointing, excuses, obfuscation and outright lies.

    Do you recall which college station you heard Hodari Ali on? I’d be interested in knowing, because I’m trying to get a handle on just how widespread the disinformation campaign directed at the African-American community is.

    About the U.S. conspiracy against Sudan? I’m crunching deadlines right now, so I’ll be brief and provide links that make my point for me: I seriously don’t buy the flimsy contention that the U.S. is trying to undermine the Sudanese government at all. I believe they’re doing just enough to appease the Zionist lobby — and no more — while keeping things all warm and fuzzy with Khartoum over GWOT and intelligence on al-Qaeda. This administraiton dosn’t give a damn about black life anywhere — and certainly not when weighed against perceived long-term strategic foreign policy objectives.

    Just google “CIA Sudan,” and you come up with all kinds of information about how the U.S. is in bed with Sudan. It’s doing the same garbage in Africa it’s always done, as in Somalia and Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia: cozying up with tyrants/fascists and corrupt, oppressive, often murderous regimes in what it perceives as its own national interest. Check out these links for starters:

    1. http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/37/11283
    2. http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/01/1440259
    3. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4627075

    The fact is there IS no U.S. conspiracy against Sudan. Bush’s Plan B is a farce. They left off several of the worst offenders on the sanctions list, and they know that unilateral sanctions will have little to no effect, because Sudan doesn’t do U.S. dollars anymore. It’s all posturing.

    Not only that. If the Bush administration were serious about Darfur, why would it appoint as special envoy a man who returned from Sudan and declared at a major address at George Washington University that there was no longer a genocide occurring, a man who has openly excoriated the Save Darfur coalition and Darfur advocates, falling just short of calling them a real pain in the ass and complaining that they were “impossible” to satisfy? http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/30/1551/

    Andrew Natsios has done all these things. The man isn’t a friend to the Darfur advocacy movement; he’s a distraction, a palliative to complaints, a Band-aid on a tumor.

    What the Bush administration has been doing is placating the moneyed, politically powerful Zionist lobby in this country in a run-up to an election year. Jews still believe in this country, and they think they’re getting an audience, when what they’re really getting is a genial smile face-up — and a behind-the-back, okey-doke rope-a-dope and a big, fat finger from Dubya. Still, they’re so accustomed to being pandered to and so sure of their political clout, believe.

    “Click the heels of your ruby slippers together three times, and the people of Darfur will be safe.” “Say ‘I believe,’ children, and save Tinkerbell.”

    Yeah, right. It’s probably not terribly PC to say this, but it’s that same blind belief in “their” government that lulled many Jews into a false sense of security — before the camps and the ovens claimed them.

    Somebody needs to pull their coat: they ain’t in Kansas no mo’, and patriotism’s a b*tch.

    Now, of course the apologist shills for Sudan and Bashir don’t discuss any of this. The best they can do is cry “wolf” about some nonexistent U.S. plot to destroy and occupy Sudan. I can’t even BEGIN to tell you how insanely asinine such talk is! The sad thing is black folks actually BELIEVE such garbage.

    News flash: abysmal ignorance/gullibility ‘s a b*tch, too.

    Ya bettah recognize.

    
    
43. on July 30, 2007 at 2:35 pm | Reply Temple3

    How does the Libyan and South African abandonment of nuclear weapons programs figure into all of this?

    http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=13310

    While I believe non-proliferation treaties are nonsense, the link above speaks to the defenseless condition of the continent.

    
    
44. on July 30, 2007 at 9:56 pm | Reply IKnowWhoIam

    Near as I can tell, nothing. You’re off-point.

    
    
45. on August 1, 2007 at 1:32 am | Reply IKnowWhoIam

    If you’re inclined, use the following link to demand immediate deployment of a hybrid peacekeeping for to Darfur.

    http://ga6.org/campaign/un_resolution/forward

    
    
46. on August 1, 2007 at 4:33 am | Reply IKnowWhoIam

    That’s “a hybrid peacekeeping FORCE” — of course!

    
    
47. on December 6, 2007 at 4:27 am | Reply TheBlackHistoryChannel

    *sigh* The genocide that has been going on in the Sudan is really not about Darfur. The genocide that has happened to the people of Southern Sudan is as a result of the civil war that has been going on for about 30 yrs. If you all would research this issue, you’ll see that #1 the Dinka and Nuba people who are the victims have been displaced, maimed, raped, enslaved and murdered by Northern Sudanese. This is well documented fact and they’ve had refugee camps in the South full of these people for nearly 20 yrs. #2 Although most African people outside of Africa view the Northern Sudanese as blacks, they view themselves as Arab. Another well documented fact.
    African people need to stop feeling sorry for people who have and continue to enslave other African people. I’m not for the entire “Save Darfur” organization because they are questionable. However, there are people whose leaders have been shot down in cold blood by the Khartoum government and some of you all are sitting up here talking about its ethnic violence?? Was Rwanda ethnic violence or genocide? This is the kind of ignorance the permeates our community because of religious bias. There are people out there, African peoples who are more concerned about Arabs then about their own African brothers, sisters and children. I personally have very low tolerance for that type of attitude. Its just as bad as those Africans who side with Whites because they are Christians.
    Wake up people.