via Lonnie Plaxico:
John Henrik Clarke
“Powerful people cannot afford to educate the people that… they oppress, because once you are truly educated, you will not ask for power. You will take it.”
Krishnamurti/Freedom from the Known, p.11: DISORDER :”The primary cause of disorder in ourselves is the seeking of reality promised by another… It is a most extraordinary thing that although most of us are opposed to political tyranny and dictatorship, we inwardly accept the authority, the tyranny, of another to twist our minds and our way of life.”
J. Krishnamurti, The Book of Life/Relationship Is a Mirror
Surely, only in relationship the process of what I am unfolds, does it not? Relationship is a mirror in which I see myself as I am; but as most of us do not like what we are, we begin to discipline, either positively or negatively, what we perceive in the mirror of relationship. That is, I discover something in relationship, in the action of relationship, and I do not like it. So, I begin to modify what I do not like, what I perceive as being unpleasant. I want to change it;which means I already have a pattern of what I should be. The moment there is a pattern of what I should be, there is no comprehension of what I am. The moment I have a picture of what I want to be, or what I should be, or what I ought not to be, a standard according to which I want to change myself;then, surely, there is no comprehension of what I am at the moment of relationship. I think it is really important to understand this, for I think this is where most of us go astray. We do not want to know what we actually are at a given moment in relationship. If we are concerned merely with self-improvement, there is no comprehension of ourselves, of what is.
I don’t agree with Krishnamurti’s relationship quote. Why is it that I can’t understand myself, even as I strive to change into my higher self? God has given us the capacity to improve. Our minds are not so one dimensional and linear, that I can no longer know ME, because I’m on a journey of self improvement. Not only do I know me at any particular moment in time, but I’m learning more of me as I strive to reach my higher self.
I know that I act in a self centered manner, and I don’t like it. I’m in a relationship with a selfless person who inspires me. I watch and learn from their example. Or maybe Im in a relationship with a selfish person and I don’t like that about the person.
I don’t stop understanding myself as being self centered, just because I take steps to be less self centered. IMHO.
Maybe I need to read about Krishnamurti to understand where he is coming from with his teachings.
Anna Renee: I don’t claim to know what he means here, but….if I’m trying to change, what is the blueprint that I am using? What is the template? Am I evolving into something “organic/organically”? Or, is there a “pattern”, a “template”, that someone has handed down to me? Can I get caught up in the pattern, caught up in “being” what I’m told I should be – religiously, politically, ethnically – which would immediately diminish my ability to see myself clearly because of my headlong pursuit of some ideal I’ve been taught was better, or more authentic?
Hey freeslave! As my mom would say, “that’s deep!“
This for me is where Jesus’ teachings come in. Come unto me all ye that labor, and I will give ye rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn of.me for I am meek and lowly in heart. And you will find rest for your souls for my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28.
peace freeslave, my brother!
not that im proselytizing or anything!
Anna Renee, how can wearing another’s yoke be “freedom”? If I am interpreting what Krishnamurti is saying here correctly, the wearing of ANY yoke is slavery. What sets his idea apart is that it offers nothing. No system of thought, philosophy. If truth is “a pathless land” then following any teacher is the following a pattern that is deadening/dead. The only path is one’s on. And a major part of any path, I think, is removing the false idols – church, religion, state – that masquerade as “THE” way or answer.
When I had one particular issue, there was a path that I had to follow or else. Guess what? I stopped following that path when I noticed how many corpses were on it. And I’m still here, while others who followed “the way” to the letter, fell by the wayside. When I stopped believing in the truth of the state and began trying to see if for what it was, mine eyes were opened wide. As long as I “believed” that it was a democracy, that it was a force for good – had the image/projection in my head – couldn’t see.
The relationship idea is very interesting and the mirror as well. When I was married, I saw a reflection of me from my partner that was idealized. It was a role, a position, a projection within her that she had of a husband. She couldn’t see me, really. I began to see and FEEL this distortion, as well as see and feel the hollowness at its root. She was a role: a wife, a bed partner, companion. The mirror that sees the soul, the mutuality of that mirrored truth, the part that desires to be seen naked, raw, real-ly – was absent. I experienced that as death.
I suppose that Jesus understood/understands that one is yoked to something: either the “way” of someone else or their own “way”, which is probably still someone else’s way. It may not be possible to experience “waylessness”. Often, people choose their own personal way and end up in chaos, confusion and pain.
We who are disciples of Jesus (more than just Christians) choose to follow His way, because we have faith that He is “the Way, the Truth, and the Life” just as He said. As we follow Him, we grow and experience His gifts to us of peace that manifests in the midst of chaos and trouble, we learn to have love for others that requires no reciprocation and we receive and experience His joy within ourselves in spite of dealing with our own and others’ human weaknesses and the pain that can cause.
What’s beautiful is that Jesus allows us to choose to follow Him therefore we can’t claim to have be manipulated or coerced into it. I recently got into a huge debate at my site with Ex-Christians who claim that God Himself is a huge tyrant and a sadist. But what they refused to acknowledge is that God allows us to choose Him or not.
And in choosing Him, we can’t explain everything about Him to others, we can’t know everything. But if we have faith, we learn enough to know that we are living our best lives if we continue to follow and learn of the Teacher, Jesus.
I can attest that I am a better person, more content, reaching higher spiritual places within myself, since I decided to follow Christ and develop a spiritual relationship with Him. In humbling myself to be able to develop my relationship with Him by studying His Word, praying, worshipping Him, I learn more of who I am, which His Holy Spirit mirrors back to me, and that is that I’m created in the image of God.
“Jiddu Krishnamurti on how to control thought and on Authority
Questioner: We have been told that thought must be controlled to bring about that state of tranquillity necessary to understand reality. Could you please tell us how to control thought?
Jiddu Krishnamurti : First, sir, don’t follow any authority. Authority is evil. Authority destroys, authority perverts, authority corrupts; and a man who follows authority is destroying himself and destroying also that which he has placed in a position of authority. The follower destroys the master as the master destroys the follower. The guru destroys the pupil as the pupil destroys the guru.
Through authority you will never find anything. You must be free of authority to find reality. It is one of the most difficult things to be free of authority, both the outer and the inner. Inner authority is the consciousness of experience, consciousness of knowledge. And outward authority is the state, the party, the group, the community. A man who would find reality must shun all authority, external and inward. So, don’t be told what to think. That is the curse of reading – the word of another becomes all-important.
The question begins by saying, ”We have been told.” Who is there to tell you? Sir, don’t you see that leaders and saints and great teachers have failed, because you are what you are? So leave them alone. You have made them failures because you are not seeking truth; you want gratification. Don’t follow anyone, including myself; don’t make of another your authority. You yourself have to be the master and the pupil. The moment you acknowledge another as a master and yourself as a pupil, you are denying truth. There is no master, no pupil, in the search for truth.
The search for truth is important, not you or the master who is going to help you to find the truth. You see, modem education, and also the previous education, have taught you what to think, not how to think. They have put you within a frame, and that frame has destroyed you, because you seek out a guru, a teacher, a leader, political or other, only when you are confused. Otherwise you never follow anybody. If you are very clear, if you are inwardly a light unto yourself, you will never follow anyone. But because you are not, you follow; you follow out of your confusion, and what you follow must also be confused. Your leaders as well as yourself are confused, politically and religiously. Therefore, first clear up your own confusion, become a light unto yourself, and then the problem will cease. The division between the master and the pupil is unspiritual.”